Comments

• 	Not too useful jpdemers on 05/15/2008 at 3:05 AM
  Posts: 33 Avg Rating:	Generates one CO2 for every H2, which wipes out the primary reason one would use a hydrogen fuel cell.  You're better off using a fuel cell that burns methanol. Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • Re: Not too useful fkearney on 05/15/2008 at 8:53 AM

    Posts: 1 Avg Rating:

    That's a good point about CO2, but realize that most of the methods for producing the hydrogen have a CO2 load of their own.  We can't consider only the emissions from the vehicle.  Unfortunately, few discussions of these technologies study the overall energy and waste balances. What is the fate of the amine?  That's a disposal issue and a drain on efficiency unless it can be recycled. I'm not sure if we'll see enough formic acid gereation to fuel vehicles, etc.  However, if the CO from a syngas stream is converted to formic acid, this could be a good way to make use of that energy on its way to CO2. Rate this comment: (Reply)

    • Re: Not too useful nuubik on 05/15/2008 at 10:15 AM

      Posts: 2 Avg Rating:

      There is that Aluminium-Gallium pellets + water and Out comes H2 AlO2 and Gallium works as a catalyst and does not react. AlO2  and Gallium can be sored and recycled. AlO2 is restured to Al the same Gallium is added back and O is released. Basically energy goes from refurb. plant to car no side effects if the energy is green. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/08/29/purdue-on-demand-hydrogen-from-aluminum-gallium-and-water/ Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • Re: Not too useful johnnybravo411 on 05/15/2008 at 12:01 PM

    Posts: 2 Avg Rating:

    "Generates one CO2 for every H2, which wipes out the primary reason one would use a hydrogen fuel cell.  You're better off using a fuel cell that burns methanol." Uhh -- "burning methanol" is going to release CO2 as well.  Nice try. In any event, if we're talking about using this for small devices only, the amount of CO2 produced is going to be completely negligible compared to other large producers. Rate this comment: (Reply)

    • Re: Not too useful jpdemers on 05/16/2008 at 1:22 AM

      Posts: 33 Avg Rating:

      Yes, but you get much more energy from the methanol, using much less hardware.  I probably should have said that you "might as well" use a methanol fuel cell.  In a fuel cell/ICE hybrid vehicle, the methanol can also fuel an internal combustion engine when peak power is needed. Methanol can come from coal or syngas, which is a plus if we're tying to cut oil imports.  (I don't know where formic acid comes from, but I suspect it can be traced to syngas.)  Neither fuel "solves" the CO2 problem, but the efficiency of hybrids ought to cut emissions substantially. Rate this comment: (Reply)

• Units! dansteingart on 05/15/2008 at 11:45 AM

  Posts: 1 Avg Rating:

  An absolute quantity (energy) was expressed in terms of a rate (power) here: "Beller points out that using formic acid to make hydrogen also has drawbacks. Compared with methane and methanol, formic acid has much less hydrogen. If you use all the hydrogen in a kilogram of methanol, you get 4.19 kilowatts of power, while the hydrogen in formic acid gives 1.45 kilowatts." I'm guessing you meant kWh. Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • 	Re: Units! johnnybravo411 on 05/15/2008 at 11:55 AM
    Posts: 2 Avg Rating:	Yeah -- and that would be kWh of ENERGY, not power.  If you are a science/technology journalist, please take the time to get your units of power/energy correct.  I see this mistake made all the time and it drives me nuts. Rate this comment: (Reply)

    • 	Re: Units! MakeSense on 05/16/2008 at 9:34 AM
      Posts: 74 Avg Rating:	Me too! Good point to make. It's like walking around with your zipper down. You might say something smart, but who's listening when your zipper's down? Rate this comment: (Reply)

• 	Ruthenium? MakeSense on 05/16/2008 at 9:38 AM
  Posts: 74 Avg Rating:	Small wonder that they don't see this working for FCVs - Ruthenium is one of the rarest elements on Earth and very expensive. Rate this comment: (Reply)

• 	Ruthenium ~ 1/3 price of gold nekote on 05/16/2008 at 11:59 AM
  Posts: 116 Avg Rating:	Today, Ruthenium runs ~270USD per troy ounce. Gold at ~900USD per troy ounce. Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • Re: Ruthenium ~ 1/3 price of gold MakeSense on 05/16/2008 at 2:43 PM

    Posts: 74 Avg Rating:

    Ruthenium is very rare, but it is also usually in low demand. When new demands occur, the price reacts quickly. The average price of Ru has been coming back from a recent high of $870/oz. Average price for the past month is $385, while today's bid price on the spot market is $270 ($340 Ask). The price soared when demand for its use in hard drives doubled and there was speculation of a new use in dye-sensitized solar cells. Rate this comment: (Reply)

• Magnesium Oxidization zig158 on 05/17/2008 at 12:44 AM

  Posts: 57 Avg Rating:

  Since every one seems to be stating better ideas I though that I would throw out the oxidizing magnesium idea. You take finely ground magnesium powder and mix it with water. The Oxygen in the water binds with the magnesium releasing the H2 “enter fuel cell”. When the magnesium is all converted into magnesium oxide you return it to the store and get some new stuff. Much like LP tank exchange. At this point a laser can be used to de-oxidize the magnesium. This method is as clean as the energy source used to power the laser. A kitten fired steam generator for all I care. Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • Re: Magnesium Oxidization jpdemers on 06/19/2008 at 2:34 AM

    Posts: 33 Avg Rating:

    Comparable to the aluminum-gallium alloy mentioned above.  These are, essentially, very elaborate versions of batteries: electrical energy is stored as chemical potential energy in a reactive zero-valent metal, and the energy is released in a chemical reaction and converted back to electricity.  The disadvantages are in the complexity of the hardware, and the fact that "recharging" involves lugging the metal oxides back to a reprocessing plant.  The big advantage is in the high energy density of pure, light metals like Ga, Mg or Al.  I'm not aware of any working energy storage system based on boron, but in theory it should be the ideal element for such an approach. Rate this comment: (Reply)